|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 26, 2007 16:16:08 GMT -5
Okay fellas,
We've got 6 of us in right now...i'm giving folks till Sunday to join before we start looking for replacement owners. I've got a couple of friends that want in so if any of you all know anyone who would be good see if they want in as well.
Anyhow, I think we should go ahead and start a discussion about the keeper rules for next year and how the draft will work. They are the two most important aspects of this league IMO. Without straying too far from the original constition, and not making it too complicated, I think we have two options to choose from, and can do our tweaking from there.
1. Keep 7 MLB players (no more, no less) for max 3 seasons Keep 4 Minor League players (no more, no less) for max 5 seasons...Minor leagues must be kept as MLB keepers if they lose eligibility in a season...and their MLB keeper clock starts the following year.
This is by far the simplest option and I think what the original constitution intended, but it seems some managers either misunderstood or were unhappy with being "forced" to keep a certain amount.
2. Keep "Up to 7" MLB players, each for max 3 seasons. Keep "Up to 4" Minor League Players
After asking a few other keeper league commishes they all agreed that the only fair way to do this is for each manager to only draft until the round where their keeper picks fill out their roster... if someone is keeping all 7, they skip their last 7 picks (and pick their keepers) ... if someone is keeping 0, they pick any 7 remaining FAs they can...and so forth in between.
I think that by us cutting back to 10 or 12 teams, there will be a large talent pool going back into the draft. So if we draft in reverse order of regular season finish those folks taking over teams and who have bad teams should get another good keeper or two.
My goal is to keep the league competitive so that crappy teams can improve, but also not make the rules favor them so well you can jump from last to first in a single season. We need a good balance between the two...
I have my thoughts on each, but would like to hear what you guys have to say about it. It will be easier to get folks to join if we get our sh*t together now and solidify this so hopefully everyone will weigh in. After an initial discussion we'll see where we are...i've copied this email under the League Rule Discussion Thread on the new board so take it from there...
John
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Sept 26, 2007 20:34:18 GMT -5
I like the keep seven and four to make it simple. Although I think in the minor leage draft maybe we shouldn't require keeping all four. In my case I think alot of my minor league keepers are Major league eligable so I do't think I have four keepers.
Although I do have a few questions. Do the draft picks you loose change based on who you keep. For example:
David Wright was my first pick and I plan on keeping him. So in next years draft I loose my first pick.
However lets say I decide to also keep James Loney Matt Garza and Travis Buck. I think all these guys are Major leaIgue eligible would I than loose picks 2,3,4 to keep them. Or would I loose the picks at the end of the draft. I think it should be players at the end of the draft someone who really researchs the minors should not be pentalized. (Athough in my case I just followed the top 100 prospect list)
I hope I explained this right.
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 26, 2007 22:53:49 GMT -5
I don't think we should have a round based penalty...it's just too much to keep track of, with trades, etc. I think it needs to just be as simple as the other options.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalflyer19 on Sept 27, 2007 8:28:14 GMT -5
I personally think each team should keep UP TO 7 players, not make it mandatory. That way lower teams will have an advantage because they will probably only keep a few players, thus giving them more of an opportunity to improve their team. And what about the new managers: will they be taking over a team? or drafting a new team? It might be hard for new managers coming in to accept this league if there are already 6 teams out there with potentially 42 great players already off the market. If we get about 6 more managers I think we should put it to a vote about the re-draft, but I don't want this to be an ongoing thing year after year....Also am I the only one that doesnt see much point in the minor league system of this league? Could we not make it mandatory to keep minor league players on your active roster (whats the Point?)
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Sept 27, 2007 10:25:51 GMT -5
I can go either way on the manditory to keep seven. However I do think you should get some incentive to keep your minor leaguers that become major leaguers. Maybe you should be able to keep hem an extra year. For example Matt Garza this year his major league clock starts ticking so I have him for three more years. I think I should be able to keep him for years otherwise why waste a major league keeper on a guy I drafed as a minor leaguer. Just my opinion but I in either way.
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 27, 2007 10:47:19 GMT -5
It seems to me like "up to 7" would be the most fair way to do it since people will be taking over teams and they may not have 7 they want to keep. If they had drafted them, I'd say tough sh*t, but since they are taking over they should have a chance to create the team they want.
Again, I think if we have trouble getting managers we may have to consider a full redraft, but i'd prefer not to. I think there are enough good teams for people to take over, not to mention the 1st couple of rounds will have top notch players from the teams that we are dissolving.
I think the minor league system has a very obvious point. I called up 3 people from my minor league team at diff. points this year...and due to my drafting i have the opportunity to control Billy Butler and Justin Upton, two big time prospects. Preparing for the minor league draft allows teams that may not have faired well in the MLB draft to at least get some good prospects so their team isnt' bad forever...plus it is a good reason to research minor league and college baseball. I don't really see any reason not to have it...i think it is a great aspect of the league.
Finally, in reference to the minor league keepers. I read the constitution to say that if a player gains eligibility in a year, they must be kept as an MLB keeper, but their clock doesn't start till next year..so you could keep 3x starting next year, which is the same as you were talking about. The other thing we can do is change it to allow players that gain eligibility this year to still be kept as minor leagues this year and then they must be MLB keepers starting next year. What do you all think?
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Sept 27, 2007 14:30:08 GMT -5
I agree then that makes sense. I can see now why you would want to a someone like Garza over say Paul Bird.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalflyer19 on Sept 27, 2007 16:30:47 GMT -5
I agree that if you have a minor leaguer who gains eligebility during the year should still be kept as a minor leaguer, but next year is a mlb keeper. Also stew what is my minor league roster?
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 27, 2007 17:16:04 GMT -5
Anybody else have opinions on that or is it all agreed, you can still keep them as minor leaguers the year they gain eligibility, but their clock starts the next year...I'll amend the constition unless anyone objects...i think it sounds fair.
You can view it on the homepage of the league at the bottom under commissioner note. Yours is the team with Evan Longoria if i remember right.
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Sept 27, 2007 19:44:04 GMT -5
I think I understand the rule.
Here is my interpatation let me know if I am correct
On My team Travis Buck, Matt Garza and James Loney all are considered major leaguers next year so to keep them I will need to use major league keeper spots but I will have conrol of them for four more years versus David Wright who I only have control over for another two years.
If this is correct I understand the rules. If not then I need some more explaining.
I know I am going over this over and over but I just want to b sure so I can decide on my keepers. Sorry about being redundent.
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 28, 2007 1:49:33 GMT -5
I think you've got it....
For instance on my team:
Billy Butler/Justin Upton both surpassed 130 AB's. I can keep them as minor leaguers still this year. Then starting at the end of next year I can keep them both 3x as major leaguers (which amounts to having them for 4 seasons after this year)..i could control them both through 2011 as MLB keepers
Vlad - I can keep him 3x starting the end of this season so i could have him for 2008, 2009, 2010.
Basically what it amounts to is that if a player STARTS the season as a rookie, be it out of spring training or a Sept call-up....they are still minor league keepers. The following year they are treated just like any MLB keeper.
How does that sound with everybody?
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 28, 2007 2:04:35 GMT -5
Okay...after speaking with some other commishes, including a friend of mine who has had to tweak their league due to problems with keeper rules (sound familiar?)....if we are going to allow less than 7 MLB and minor league keepers we at least need to set a minimum to keep the next years draft fair for everyone.
I would propose either 4-7 or 5-7 keepers per year, which we can all weigh in on a preference and majority rules. Each team would post their keepers before the draft...the rest go into the draft pool. If you keep 4, then rounds 1-4 for you would be your 4 keepers....starting in round 5 you would choose whichever available player you want. If you keep 6, then rounds 1-6 consist of your keepers and your first "real" draft pick doesn't come until round 7. And so on and so forth.
I think this will keep parity in the league...allowing lesser teams to improve, but not to the point where they can keep 0 and snatch all of the 1st round picks. there has to be a limit and i think either 4-7 or 5-7 would be good.
Let me know what you all think....I definitely feel this is the way to go after posting to a couple of message boards and speaking with some friends....
John
|
|
|
Post by newmarketgnats on Sept 30, 2007 9:59:31 GMT -5
i will have to look at what i want to do
only allowing players to remain on a team for 3 years punishes good managers who draft well. We may as well draft a new every year. what i see happening is every team with players in their 3rd year will trade those players to another team.
this would then start the 3 year process over again. i would trade my best 7 3rd year players to another team for their 7 best 3rd year player
this could happen and propably will
balance will happen due to our minor league system and trades
The penalty for keeping is not strong enough missing your last picks will not develop balance the strong teams will get stronger.
I would like the league to consider looking at the top 7 picks. This make teams think before keeping someone at low cost.
We want managers that are here and dedicated for the long haul. to build their teams and participate.
This includes veto of bad trades
i the league will look at this
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 30, 2007 19:34:05 GMT -5
I'm not sure if i totally agree here, but i'd like to hear what others think. First, I'm not sure how allowing to keep 3x is a punishment. It amounts to 4 seasons which is a long time IMO. I definitely don't see how that equates to drafting new every year, they couldn't be more opposite...no?
I do see how you feel that people will look to trade their 3rd year keepers so they don't lose them to FA...but i think that will actually be an exciting season with lots of moves. Off season as well. But one thing that we COULD do is to say that if there is a trade the keeper clocks DO NOT reset...so if you traded for AROD in this offseason, he would still have been kept 1x. What do you all think about that?
I got a little confused at the end of your post...I'm not quite sure which option with the keepers you are favoring. First we need to decide if we want to do 4-7 or 5-7 keepers. If i understand you right you are saying you like the idea of using your first picks on the keepers you want, then starting the draft when you have selected all of your keepers, which means someone keeping 4 would pick 3 more FA at the begginning of the draft than someone keeping 7. Is that what you mean?
John
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Sept 30, 2007 20:36:38 GMT -5
I say 5-7. I think we may want to expand the minor leagers to 9 0r 10 though. Also if I am able to keep Garza, Loney Buck as minor leaguers when do I have keep them on the roster full time?
[glow=red,2,300]Also when are keepers do?[/glow]
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 30, 2007 21:18:29 GMT -5
We'll have to determine a keeper deadline...i'd say shortly before the draft. No reason to rush before we hammer out all of the rules.
I'll start a 5-7 and 4-7 vote thread soon. Also i think expanding the minors draft would be good.
I'd say since we're allowing rookies who become MLB players in a season to still be kept as minors. The become just like regular MLB players the following year. So if you keep Garza and Loney you MUST keep them on the MLB roster or drop them and they become regular free agents. They are only under your control next year if they are on your roster.
|
|
|
Post by Colonels on Sept 30, 2007 21:27:29 GMT -5
In one of my other leagues we can keep a player for 4 times (5 total seasons). If you make a trade for a player in the middle of the year and keep him that offseason it does not count for the first time kept. You have to have the player on your roster to begin the regular season, keep him the entire year, and then keep him in the offseason before it counts as 1 time kept.
Also, if you trade one of your keepers in the middle of the season and reaquire him either by another trade or FA the keeper clock does not reset unless one full season has passed.
Example: I trade ARod to Moonshiners in May 2008. Then in July 2009 I get ARod back in a trade and keep him that offseason. ARod's keeper clock would NOT reset for me because the entire 2009 season had not passed before I got him back. This stops people from swapping their best players back and forth to avoid the number of years kept rules.
I like the way this has worked so far in my other league. I just joined this year but it is the end of the 3rd year of the league. We are already seeing people trade some of their top talent early because they know they'll be losing them soon enough and I think this encourages trades. You would not want to wait until the last minute to trade your best guys anyway. People know you have to get rid of them and that makes them less valuable.
Anyway...
I'm for 5-7 MLB Keepers. I agree with getting rid of the OF position and just going with LF, CF, RF or 3 OF. I also would like to be able to keep player 4 times (5 Seasons).
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Sept 30, 2007 21:32:44 GMT -5
I pretty much echo everything you say here Except about changing the amount of times kept I feel like we ought to keep at least a few of the aspects from the original constitution to stay in the spirit of the league, and I think the slightly shorter keeper span with hasten trades, etc. I do want to thank you for giving me an excuse to use the baseball themed icons.
|
|
|
Post by newmarketgnats on Sept 30, 2007 22:55:17 GMT -5
yes on the the picks if we decide to keep up to 7 and only keep 5 we would lose our 1st 5 picks in the draft so if some team has a shit year and has no one to keep they could possible be the only one picking for the first several rds. only problem is we can trade picks so if you trade your 1st rd pick what do we do....... I'm not sure if i totally agree here, but i'd like to hear what others think. First, I'm not sure how allowing to keep 3x is a punishment. It amounts to 4 seasons which is a long time IMO. I definitely don't see how that equates to drafting new every year, they couldn't be more opposite...no? I do see how you feel that people will look to trade their 3rd year keepers so they don't lose them to FA...but i think that will actually be an exciting season with lots of moves. Off season as well. But one thing that we COULD do is to say that if there is a trade the keeper clocks DO NOT reset...so if you traded for AROD in this offseason, he would still have been kept 1x. What do you all think about that? I got a little confused at the end of your post...I'm not quite sure which option with the keepers you are favoring. First we need to decide if we want to do 4-7 or 5-7 keepers. If i understand you right you are saying you like the idea of using your first picks on the keepers you want, then starting the draft when you have selected all of your keepers, which means someone keeping 4 would pick 3 more FA at the begginning of the draft than someone keeping 7. Is that what you mean? John
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Oct 1, 2007 11:56:49 GMT -5
Shouldn't players who have reach there limits for IP or AB be kept the next year as major leaguers but get an extra year to keep them.
Example: Matt Garza should be a Major league keeper for me but I can keep him for 4 more years.
Instead of keeping him for next year as a minor league keeper but being required to keep him on my major league roster all year.
Maybe I am still unclear on the rule
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Oct 1, 2007 12:23:59 GMT -5
I'll try to address the last two posts in one....
Nobody will be able to keep less than 4 or 5 MLB players. It will either be keep 4-7 or 5-7, which is now a poll on this board everyone should vote on...and we'll go with the majority.
Let's say for examples sake we do 4-7 MLB Keepers.
Round 1 will only include those teams keeping 4 players Round 2 will include those keeping 4 or 5 players Round 3 will include those keeping 4, 5, or 6 players Round 4 will include all teams
The order will be set beforehand and when the round comes for a team to join in, they will just fill in where they are in the order. As for trading picks, that won't make any difference really. A team keeping 4 players can still trade their round 1 pick, either with a team that also has a round 1 pick, or even with someone keeping 7 players who wouldn't have had one.
Paws,
On the minor league question...this is the way it will work and i'll use Garza as an example who lost rookie eligibility mid-season:
This year: You can keep Garza as minor league keeper
Next year: He will NOT be on your minor league roster.
If he isn't currently on your MLB roster, you will skip your last pick in the MLB draft to leave room for him on your MLB roster.
You cannot send him back down to the minors next year, if you don't want him on your roster you simply drop him and he is FA.
Starting next year you can keep him 3x as an MLB Keeper (that amounts to 4 years)
If that doesn't sound good to anyone please let me know...i'm trying to make it as unconfusing as possible and keep it fair.
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Oct 1, 2007 20:23:30 GMT -5
OK I think I got this through my thick head.
Just one more thing if this is incorrect just let me know.
I am planing on keeping Garza, Loney, maybe Buck. They would all be minor league keepers. But to keep control of them I have to keep them on my major league roster all year. Also if I keep all three I give up my last three picks. If I only keep two then I give up my last two picks.
So in my situation coming in to mext year I could have 10 players on my major league roster before we draft.
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Oct 1, 2007 20:39:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I think you got it. Basically your MLB roster will start with the amount of MLB Keepers you have plus any minor league keepers that lost eligibility mid season.
|
|
|
Post by mrusselburg on Oct 1, 2007 21:16:26 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing it up. All the talk of rule changes I just want to be clear.
Also the sight looks great. Thanks again for stepping in to keep the league going. I was thiking about doing it but No way I could of done such a nice job.
|
|
|
Post by Vegas All In on Oct 2, 2007 12:38:19 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it somewher else, but what is the keepers turn in deadline date? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Oct 2, 2007 13:00:24 GMT -5
It is still to be determined...we'll see after we shake out all the rules.
|
|
|
Post by newmarketgnats on Oct 3, 2007 7:29:32 GMT -5
Traded Picks
if i trade my 1st rd pick to another team and keep 7 where is the penalty..........what pick do i lose
if i trade my 1st and 2nd rd pick and keep 7 where is the penalty when do i begin to pick
if i trade my 1, 2 and 3 rd pick and keep 7 where is the penalty
and so on
please clarify
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Oct 3, 2007 8:26:24 GMT -5
We are keeping between 4-7 players...so if you are keeping 7, you do not have a 1st round pick to trade. Your "1st round" would be the 4th round and that is the earliest pick you would have to trade.
Round 1 - only teams keeping 4 Round 2 - teams keeping 4 and 5 Round 3 - teams keeping 4, 5, and 6 Round 4 - All teams
Hopefully that makes sense...
|
|
|
Post by Bwanna on Oct 3, 2007 10:22:32 GMT -5
...meaning that if you trade away a first round pick BEFORE you have announced your MLB keepers, you've locked yourself in to only keeping 4? And, if you trade away your 2nd round pick, you have to keep 5 or less, etc. Right?
|
|
|
Post by Moonshiners on Oct 3, 2007 10:32:15 GMT -5
Yeah, that would be the case on anyone trading picks before the final keeper list is due
|
|